In Part 1 of this episode, we discuss:
Transcript
The following transcript is autogenerated so may contain errors.
Matt Nally
On this week’s episode, we have Hilary Grayson, who is the director of surveying services at Sarver. So thank you very much for coming on.
Hilary Grayson
My absolute pleasure, Matt, it’s been a little while since I’ve done a podcast like this. So looking forward to it very much.
Matt Nally
That’s a pleasure to have you on. Do you want to give everyone I’m sure a lot of people already know who you are. But I do want to give us a bit of background as to what you do server and what server do. Yeah,
Hilary Grayson
so yeah, so I start with me. So I was a good, good old fashioned jobbing surveyor. For a long time I qualified back in the day when they were the old divisions, and I was a general practice surveyor. That meant in in truth that I was a valuer first and foremost. And I never really worked in housing other than when I was at Bromley Council, I used to package up land which we would sell mostly for housing developers, because of the way that that sort of Bromley worked and the way it was sort of structured as a sort of a burr at the time and in sort of South London fringes. Following that, I actually went to our ICs and I bit of a poacher turned gamekeeper, so having been on the inside the great George Street saw how that worked, which was very interesting, and from great George Street. And in fact, then my portfolio did include residential. So that’s why I picked up the sort of residential portfolio. So I’ve been working with residential spheres now for over 20 years, near 25, I would say. And then I joined Sarver when Sarver was still its its first incarnation, which was to do with competency survey, a competency. It was an independent business. It was set up by my two then colleagues down in Woking. And it was that business that was acquired by my current employer. So I was bought, literally 20 years ago, this year, it’s my anniversary, my emerald anniversary, it turns out when I was bought by this server, as it were, and I led on the development back in the early 2000s, on the development of the home inspector qualification that we delivered here, the less said about that, the better. But that gave me the real insight and understanding of vocational qualifications. And that led me on to create with a chapter is now retired Chuck called Christmas spin, but we created the Diploma in residential surveying and valuation about 10 years ago now. And we’ve been running it operationally for about eight. So a lot of people will probably know us through the diploma. And, and sort of recognise us as sort of one of the sort of the leading training providers for surveying in the country. Our business, interestingly, we do also offer, we have a software side where we profile the energy efficiency of housing stock. So we have over 200 housing provider clients on that side of the business, who use our profiling software as part of their drive for net zero. And that’s a side of the business that we’re exploring in terms of skills, educational need, as well. So that’s, yeah, that’s, that’s me and a bit of an introduction to solver as well.
Matt Nally
Awesome. I think that’s a nice segue actually into, I suppose what we’re gonna be covering today. So we’ll touch on the Net Zero sustainability bits later on in the Yeah, I suppose the first bit of tying into the the training aspects, you know, the diploma side. My first question, and I suppose it’s possibly more useful for students that are looking to come into the industry is what do you need to consider as a student or potential student coming into the surveying industry?
Hilary Grayson
It’s, I think, for what we say to our learners, and it’s definitely sort of bears out in the sort of in the success of people going through the programme, is you have to be interested in property. You don’t have to have had a background in property. You don’t have to be you know, you don’t have to be an estate agent. About a third of our, our learners will come from a state agency 25% 30% come from a state agency. You don’t have to be a small landlord. You don’t have to have a background. But what you do have to have is a real interest in in the subject. Because if you don’t, there’s a lot to absorb. There’s a lot to take in and if you don’t have that kind of interest in Drive, it will be a chore rather than a pleasure. To do the learning. So I would say that’s the most critical kind of thing about an individual that just that have that real interest and passion about property.
Matt Nally
On that note, though, there’s things you can do to really test how much you think you are enjoyed, are interesting, because I say this from the perspective of I did a uni course years ago, and I chose the wrong course to begin with and had to swap and do something else move on to a different course. And it’s something I thought I was really interested in it covered the four subjects I did at school
Hilary Grayson
executives made exactly the same mistake I can, I can relate to that. I can relate to that day, you know, what I’ve it’s, it’s, it’s kind of, it’s walking down the street, I think if you’re walking down the street, and you’re looking around you, and you are looking at how you’re looking at houses, you’re looking at buildings, and you’re thinking, how old is that? And why was that built there? And I wonder who lives there? And what’s the history of that? And why is that property got that particular feature? And if you know, if there’s a brick wall that looks a bit odd, you know, can you what might be going on with that brick wall? And do those people share a drive? How do they manage their access? How do they manage who repairs? What? Can you even get a car into that garage, it’s just look noticing things that make you kind of go, what is this all about? And I think that would be you know, if you walk down if you if you if you look at a house, and you can’t you think, ah, you know, you’re just not interested, I can’t see that it would fly with you. And I think housing in particular, with where we live places we live. I think there’s also and I think this is one of the things that makes me really interested in housing is it ties in with sort of kind of social history, and how, particularly over the last 150 years, which is sort of a bit of a sort of, most of us will live in housing that has built over the last 150 years, and most of the housing stock in the UK will date from those sorts of period. And it’s kind of like being able to relate how we’ve developed as a society, and what was happening and you know, the great surge, all these all towns are going to have sort of swathes of Victorian terraced housing. Why? Why was there no terraced housing before? Sort of the late 1800s? You know, what was it that sort of drove people to the towns what was going on in the world? What was going on after the First World War that drove the move to sort of garden cities, and that sort of changes in architecture that we began to see in the 20s and 30s. And ditto in the 50s? You know, why was suddenly 1950s looking different to what it would look back in the 1930s. And it all ties in with sort of a wider sort of kind of social picture. So I think social history is something again, that you know, it floats my boat, and I think it again comes back to that. How did housing react to our needs? Yeah. And technological changes, and you know, changes in kitchens and introduction of washing machines, and all of that that made made the way we occupy our houses. So different. So yeah, if that makes any
Matt Nally
perspective, yeah, that’s hilarious. That’s it, it makes me think of back in school. I didn’t particularly enjoy history, sadly. And then now I really find it interesting. From my favourite programmes is abandoned engineering. So it’s looking at these types of projects that came from why are they built there? Yeah,
Hilary Grayson
yeah. I mean, I did enjoy history at school. I did enjoy history up to Oh, level anyway, I did history, and I did enjoy it. But I Yeah, it’s I do find it. But it’s always about the people. The buildings are great, you know, and that’s what’s left, you see the buildings and you see what’s, you know, a remnant of an old castle or whatever it might it might be, but but it’s the people it’s, it’s, it’s what was it that drove somebody to invest time and energy and money and resources into building that thing there. And how did they live? And how did they occupy it and what were the drivers and it’s really interesting, and on the side I, I’m a trustee at a charity here in Milton Keynes. And it’s a place called Westbury Art Centre. And the building itself dates in the 1600s or bits of it do some of its 1950s but it’s actually on a site that was occupied by the Saxons, and I am the custodian of a moat, or what’s left of a moat that is over 1000 years old. And you think why were they building moats in Milton Keynes 1000 years ago the Saxons building boats making their farmsteads because it was a farmer working sort of Farmstead, why were they building Moats? Why were they fortifying it? It’s because the vine King’s were literally just up the road in Northampton shear. So this literally Milton Keynes was wild west territory. You know, I can imagine the Saxons and the Viking skirmishing over the great ooze just literally just over from wherever the office is now. So yeah, it’s little things like that, you know, it was they were living, they were working in the land, it was sustainable live, subsistence living. But then they needed to build themselves a blooming great moat in case the Vikings sent down the raiding party. Yeah, but it was sideline there. But anyway, yes.
Matt Nally
I suppose. My other question was around going into the training site, I completely agree with you on the the interest and engagement with it. How do you know, there’s so many pathways? How do you know the survey evaluation route is the right one?
Hilary Grayson
That’s a tricky one, that that really is a tricky one. And we do get, we do get people who phoned us up and ask about construction often. So quite, we get quite a few people asking about quantity surveying, because it’s, you know, related to construction. I think the thing to do, and I have had lots of conversations with people about this, but people have thought I like what you do, but I’m not quite sure it’s right for me, because give us a ring. And we can always talk through what you will actually learn so that you can make a judgement about how you will apply that. And how that sort of fits with what your sort of kind of ambition is a really classic example is people who who work more in a kind of more of a rural environment, and then never clear if they want to be rural surveyors and valuers or whether they want to go down the residential route. And, you know, I’ve had loads of conversations with people along those sorts of lines, and some have joined the course because they’ve gone actually, that would be a way forward. And some have gone off and inquired about courses or places like Cirencester, etc. So it is a tricky one. But I would always say give us a ring that you can speak to colleagues here who to have these conversations, or people can always speak to me talk to the cows come home about it. So yeah, but it’s a really good question. How do you know? Why would I do this? And not? You know, off more general real estates stuff? And yeah, yeah, I get it. Yeah, give us a ring.
Matt Nally
That’s part of that. And then I suppose the the other things and what are the what the challenges people might face in the process that they might not think about, that they can prepare better for, like, one thing we see come up a lot is, I suppose the questions around shadowing, for example, and getting that contact time is that the things people can do to prepare in advance?
Hilary Grayson
Yeah, I think the best thing you can do if you’re thinking about this is is find is put put feelers out, and find a surveyor who, in your area who is already working. And one of the things and this is how I joined the profession dunkers ago, and one of the things you could do is ask if you could go out with them before you even commit to the course. Because if if you’re alongside them, and they’re talking to you about what they’re doing, and why they’re doing it, and if you can relate to that and think this is interesting, then it helps validate your decision. But if you’re thinking I couldn’t do this every day, then you know, it’s not for you. So there’s definitely put feelers out. When we started, people didn’t know we existed, you know, we would not, we were not established, obviously. And we were a bit of an unknown quantity. But now, but now we’ve got, you know, we’ve been going eight, nine years doing this, we’ve got graduates everywhere, and we’ve got firms that have employed graduates, you know, it’s we’re so much better known. And it’s likely, it’s always possible that you could be speaking to a local surveyor, and they could be one of our graduates from a few years ago. So I would say that would be a really good way to kind of sort of begin to put feelers out. But the other thing I would say, is, be realistic about the amount of time it’s going to take you it is a commitment. And so what you need to do, if you’re thinking about it is sit down with a partner with your family, your friends, whatever and say, I am going to do this, it will mean I will make some sacrifices. So you know, if it don’t, please do not be disappointed if I say I’m not coming to the family barbecue, because I need to spend some time doing some work, doing some studying whatever it may be, and just getting buy in from family and friends so that they don’t sort of put external pressures on you. Yeah,
Matt Nally
I think that’s a good point. Because you have to you have to have your support there as well.
Hilary Grayson
Yeah. Yeah.
Matt Nally
How long does it take typically is around two years is that right? Oh,
Hilary Grayson
yeah, it’s we promote it as a two year course. There’s First, the first 1314 months sort of in a much more structured training environment where you’ll be told what to do and given the timetable to do it. And then following on from that, there is what the assessment process which is very much driven by the learner in terms of their own sort of timetable. And we have had people finish that last bit quicker than two years. But for the most part, I think we average is something like 2627 months at the moment from start right through to finish. So yeah, allow two years. Awesome.
Matt Nally
I think that my final question from my side, actually, just touching back on the shadowing part is, you may not know the answer to this, but one thing I see come up a fair bit as people are asking for shadowing, and then maybe surveying surveyors worrying about the implications around GDPR? Or is it an actual concern that they should have or
Hilary Grayson
so first of all, if people are on the course and want to shadow, then we will provide public liability. So for individual firms, you know, if they say I’m bit worried, suppose you can break them in vas, so long as we know, so long as the learner and the firm contact us, you know, Joe Bloggs, surveyors limited says we are mentoring Jim the learner or Sally the learner whoever, as long as we just know, we’ve got a record, then you’re covered under our public liability, and we have that kind of covered. So and for the most part, actually, that’s not an issue because most firms will have a public liability insurance that covers not just employee or not just formal employees, but people working under the auspices of that firm. But we have put that in place for for several people. GDPR we hear that sometimes we used to hear that, from the likes of the corporates around sort of sort of information that you might hear about a customer, but in reality, well, we heard about it. This is going back like eight years, it’s not been an issue lately. And I think I think the thing is, the learner isn’t interested in Mrs. Miggins, the customer, they’re not interested in where they are now they’re not interested in what level of lending they may or may not be exposing themselves to. But they’re not interested in any of that. They just want to go to a property. And I think actually, the way a lot of instructions in even in the corporate world are given now a lot of the valuers won’t necessarily have any personal information about their customer, because that’s been filtered through a booking system. They might know the potential whether or not the potential lender, they might know how much a mortgage is, and they might know the name of the customer. But that’s it, you know, and if it’s Mrs. Smith, it could be any Mrs. Smith. So it, it hasn’t really been an issue for a long time. That hasn’t been raised. So I think it’s interesting you asked because, yeah, I think it’s I think personally, I think it’s a non problem, I can see why people get concerned about it. But I don’t think in practical terms, it is an issue at all. Because as I say the learners just want to know about the bricks and mortar of what they’re going to look at. So yeah,
Matt Nally
that makes sense. And that’s what that’s what my my thoughts would put a bit yeah, it’s good to hear that it’s something that people can go and do safely and not particularly the insurance aspects.
Hilary Grayson
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, you know, and we completely get that if you’re a one man band, you may not have the public liability cover for anybody other than yourself can completely get it. You know, that’s, that’s more than fair enough. More than reasonable. You just let us know, you and the learner, just let us know. And then as long as we’ve got that covered, then in the event that anything should happen, you know, we’ve got our own policy we can draw down on and nobody’s ever broken them in vase, by the way. Just yesterday, well, this afternoon, just because I said it
Matt Nally
reminds me of a story. Not too far from here, where someone did a house clearance. And they found that might have been a particular vase that went for millions in auction. So whoever turned on the house clearance was very unlucky.
Hilary Grayson
Oh, this cash in the attic, they you know, somebody that that lovely moment of, you know, I paid the antiques roadshow. You know, I paid for this, it was two pound 50 at a car boot sale. And you’re telling me it is by Picasso and it’s worth 250 million or whatever. Yeah, we all dream we all dream.