Transcript
The following transcript is autogenerated so may contain errors.
Matt Nally
For our second topic, I think this moves on sort of quite nicely from where we finished on the first part was, I suppose how surveying firms can help support people into the industry. So whether that’s supporting graduates or people progressing through different routes, or the apprenticeship schemes, how can surveying firms start to get involved if they’re not already? In helping people through? Yeah,
Jen Lemen
sure. So I say right at the outset would be, would be some really good information about which qualifications or membership levels the firm supports. So whether that’s associate Mr. MRCs, you know, in some other firms might be qualifications, even outside of our ICS that still relevant to today is so some really good information about, about what you can do and what you need to be able to do it. I think I think there’s a very big, very big drive and a real, really, real importance on firms to train up train up counsellors to be available for candidates. The Roc s Do you have an online counsellor module? I’d also advise that firms have counsellors, so, those will need to be m or FRCS. vapc or associate with a certain number of years experience or, or F for the associate qualification is actually to become assessors for our ICs. And the more that the more that the staff supporting candidates know about the qualification they’re actively involved in it, the better the better support and advice you’ll be able to give to your team? Yes, I think I think if you’re a candidate and employee one of the biggest barriers, sometimes you find actually is candidates expecting to have their hands held through the qualifications in whilst it might get you through university or certain courses, the APC or associate is such a self-motivated and driven process that you’ve really got to get your mindset in the right place to be able to get through it and sustain that, you know, when you’re sitting there at six in the morning, trying to revise, it’s not because somebody at work sending you to it’s because you really, you know, you really, really want to commit to that process. So I think firms educating candidates on you know, this is how we can support you, this is what you need to do, having really open lines of communication. So, you know, if a candidate has something going on at home that’s affecting their work or their APC, there needs to be that conversation, you know, to help them through that and not not put people off the the level of commitment and work that is needed to get there. So I suppose three things And that would be support communication and education. I think the three, three big ones for firms to do for candidates
Matt Nally
interests. Okay, I’ve got a couple of questions from that. And so if you’re potentially maybe a sort of medium-ish, small to small firm, so you’ve got a few employees are there and you’re looking to bring people on, on support people into the industry? Are there frameworks that you can look at in terms of putting content together training content together to help people go through the process? Or not, in terms of, obviously hand holding, but I think you’d be looking at some of the bigger firms and potentially they’ve obviously got, you know, training schemes that they built to help bring people on and get through to whichever level of membership they’re things resources available to firms to be able to help set up internally? Or is it something they need to build themselves from scratch?
Jen Lemen
The the RFCs do have some resources available, that firms could firms could use to do that. I suppose that there is a gap in gap in the information available and having the right, the right people to provide the support. I guess, in a way, that’s where firms like property elite DO, DO get brought in. So the types of the types of things that firms need to think about. So a candidate working up to putting their submission together, they need a counsellor, they need a meeting at least probably an hour every three months, ideally more frequently than that. So for example, we might go into a firm and provide that mentoring session. Sometimes it can be for a group of people, sometimes, ideally, it’s one on one, the next, the next two, well, the next three things that I say firms definitely need to do. So candidate puts their submission together, they need somebody to review that. And then as counsellor, it’d be signed off. Sometimes having somebody completely independent can actually be a really helpful tool for firms to say, here’s the candidate, here’s the submission, are they ready. And then actually, they’re kind of giving that responsibility for going well, you know, you haven’t quite done this or you know, you need to do that a bit a bit like having an agent, agent acting for you, if you’ve got a property that you can let them do the do the difficult bit almost the way so definitely somebody to be able to review the submission. And then the candidate ideally would need somebody who’s an active assessor to, to run them through a mock interview. So they’re really, really well prepared for the final assessment, if they’re an APC candidate. Firms can also do some really great work in supporting candidates with CPD. So lots of firms that we work with, either we go in and provide workshops on lots of different topics, or the firm organise them in house. So perhaps, if you’ve got a group of APC candidates, or associate candidates, give each of them a different topic. And then they have to go away and research it and then present back to the group on that topic, which is a great way to practice presentation, communication skills, but also obviously gives them you know, quite a good amount of formal CPD on top of that, so that I suppose regular regular contact and regular dissemination of information and just really hitting home, you know, what makes a good submission? And how to go about writing up a good piece of work for your assessors. So I’d say something that’s structured, regular, and has has people with enough time to genuinely support candidates. Right, you know, firms are so limited sometimes in in the amount of time people have to do their own jobs, let alone support other people. So, you know, designating somebody with with time and part of their job role for supporting candidates I think is really important as well. Definitely, definitely.
Matt Nally
I think my final question around this part, and I say this not so it might not be, but is if you’re, if you’ve just graduated, or you know, you’ve qualified might be the better, better word, whatever level potentially more so at the associate level, are there ways I suppose as a surveying firm, you can help measure if you’re giving someone the right level of work in terms of better measure their competence, experience and knowledge and so on. To move from say let’s say particularly pebble to Not enough to show the residential market as an example where it’s appropriate to move from doing level two work to level three work. But also as a, as you know, a new surveyor, is there a way yourself measuring whether you feel the work you’re being asked to do is appropriate. So you can feel confident about going out and doing it?
Jen Lemen
Yeah, definitely. I definitely think that that initial, the initial point of doing anything new, you need to be supervised and it needs somebody to review it, sign it off, you know, talk you through, you know, why did you apply that condition rating? Why did you give that advice. And doing that a number of times to make sure that you’re happy with, I suppose the more standard standard properties that you might have in a level two. I think when you’re looking at level threes, I know that lots of associates go well. I do level level twos, but I don’t, I’m not I’m not ready to go out and do a level three yet. We’ve got a couple of candidates who qualified as associate, for example, they run their own firms, or they might be in firms doing doing level twos, they’ve actually either got an instruction for a level three and gone. I want to work with somebody who’s qualified. So they do it as a, as a mentored as a shadowed task. So somebody else is doing it, obviously, with their input. So you know, again, they’ll accompany them on the inspection, they might draft the report, they’ll discuss the findings. If you’re employed in a firm, and you think, you know, I’ve done lots of level twos, and actually, I want to expand into level threes, I think stick your hand up and say, Well, again, can I kind of go out with somebody and just just watch what happens. And the more that you, the more that you shadow, the more that you then get involved with the drafting the advice, eventually, you’ll get to a point where somebody looks at your report, and there’s no red pen. And by that time, realistically, you know that you know that you’re ready. And I suppose of any of us, you know, I certainly know in what I do, sometimes I come across something I’ve never come across before and it’s always a case of just learning learning more. And if you’re not sure, as somebody who, you know, just as somebody who does, there’s no, there’s no shame in in asking for advice, and the absolute worst thing you can do is to try and wing it. Yes. Because that is where claims come from. So yeah, absolutely. Working with somebody else who knows what they’re doing is is the best way to then build your own competence to a level that that you can go and do that solely. That’s
Matt Nally
um, sparks my something in my head from things I’ve seen online, actually, around that shadowing aspect. Are there other things that surveying firms need to consider? If they allow someone to shadow them? Because I suppose where I’m coming from with that is I see. I fear I suppose that if you allow someone to shatter you, potentially there’s a GDPR issue, whether it’s the customer that was wanting the survey or the vendor, that’s whose house you’re going into or property or going into whatever it might be. Is that a valid fear? Actually, is it okay, just to have someone come and chat to you? Or do you just need to get a confidentiality agreement signed? Just to say, No, you won’t share any personal data anywhere? That’s when I say come up a lot.
Jen Lemen
Yeah, I would say this is quite similar to if you go to the doctor, and there’s, you know, there’s a trainee nurse or a trainee doctor, before you go in and somebody says to you, do you mind if x my trainee sits in on it? And if you say, no, they don’t if you say, yes, they’re there. So I think from my perspective, if you do, you know, if you do want to bring a trainee, I think number one, it depends if they’re already employed by your business, if it’s your, you know, if it’s your junior severe if it’s somebody on the team, I can’t see any problem with that, that they come along with you, obviously, because that’s just the cost of providing the instruction. And obviously, they’re fully supervised at all times. I think where it’s mentoring, and it’s somebody not in your firm, it’s not somebody who’s got a contract of employment. I think certainly submitting confidentiality, so some form of could be a non nondisclosure agreement that, you know, that information stays with them. But I, I also think it’s important for the firm to tell the client that there’ll be somebody accompanying them, you know, the client might go not bothered, fine. But, you know, if something did happen, happen on that inspection, you know, I don’t know to me it gets left opens and it gets broken. When there is, you know, an incident that happens, I think, you know, 100% firms need to cover themselves by by telling the client, you know, this is what’s going to happen. This is x, you know, they’re learning to be a surveyor, and they’re going to be with me. If a client says no, you know, it’s black and white that they don’t come on that particular inspection.
Matt Nally
Yeah, yeah. Because it’s good to because I think it was. It’s unfortunate if people can’t come on inspections and shadow for that sort of confidentiality, fix, I think there are ways around it, like, like you’ve mentioned around just getting an NDA signed or something that that that shows that you’ve considered the confidentiality of data? Because otherwise, it’s very difficult for people to go and get experience and shadow and so on.
Jen Lemen
Yeah, definitely. It’s no, you know, where I’ve worked previously, we’ve had, for example, graduates coming on work experience, and, you know, they’ve accompanied us on all types of different inspections, projects, you know, whatever it is, but they do have a contract for that period of period of work that will set out things like confidentiality, etc. So it firms looking at having people coming to do you know, mentoring opportunities, maybe just speak to an HR or a legal specialist for some sort of wording to, to use relations. Awesome.
Matt Nally
So before we move on to the final topic around sort of preparing for different routes, is there any final advice you might have for surveying firms in terms of things to consider?
Jen Lemen
Sure, so I’d say the two main things would be getting some advice and any candidates that you’re not sure if they are best placed to look at associates or MRIs, yes. And then that advice leading on to which route into either of those qualifications would be most appropriate. Quite often, I see candidates on the wrong route that’s just causing them a lot more, a lot more of a headache. And it could be a much simpler, simpler way for them to get qualified. I also think just being open to the idea of degree apprenticeships, and the fact that they can be quite cost effective for firms, and they can really help to develop candidates. So yeah, just being aware that those are out there, and a brilliant option, for developing staff.