Episode 16 – Part 2: Do we need to talk about the environment in survey reports? With Kate Charrington, Projekt3

This transcript is autogenerated and may contain errors. 

 

Matt Nally  

Another big topic that I wanted to look at, and you touched on this earlier in the first part was, do we really need to discuss the environment in reports? I know environment is a massive topic at the moment, we’re all concerned about, you know, the heat everywhere and Okay, fine. It’s been really rainy here. But it’s the effects of everything, everything moving around. If a report is ultimately about, I suppose, the snapshot of the condition the properties in at that point, and Is it safe to go ahead, in terms of from the risk profile of that customer? And understanding what’s in there? Do we need to comment on the environmental aspect of the future? Does it open up? Like extra liability or extra risk? If the comments you make aren’t right, in terms of where the environment ends up going? Yeah, I suppose there’s, there’s quite a lot we can talk about. I think in this one. Yeah. We need to talk about is the first part.

Kate Charrington  

Yes. Of course, I’m gonna say that I do kind of, you know, I tasked myself is not just a kind of climate conscious, but also climate active surveyor as well. So no, in fact, the kind of one core element I should say, of my business is that, you know, I tried to be as sustainable as possible. I know, sustainable has a lot of, you know, varying uses in terms and it’s very broad. But you know, I tried to be as good as I can be in terms of the planet. But also, I think, fundamentally, when it comes down to home survey reports, you know, we need to change with the times, right, and that doesn’t necessarily mean stepping outside the scope of our terms of engagement. But just coming back to the kind of first aspect of your question, you know, does it does it really matter? So, let’s, let’s focus on why it matters. But uh, so if we think about, you know, the RNs have said, that, I think is approximately 74% of adults. So those over 16. And, and above, they are concerned about climate change as a general. So, so that’s kind of, of one piece. That’s the, that’s the masses telling us as surveyors that people are concerned about it. And whether that’s each individual client or not, is obviously going to vary, but that’s, that’s generally what we’re seeing. And we also know that the climate change committee have made substantial kind of recommendations to improve the energy efficiency of our, of our buildings of that property. And that’s, you know, that’s not just owner occupied, that’s also privately rented that social housing, that’s commercial as well. And we know that last year, the UK had its kind of 40 plus degree, weather. So that’s, you know, a real concern for a lot of people, you know, whether you either just hate the heat or actually maybe you’re considered more vulnerable, you may have concerns around that as well. And then if we look at people like the ABI, they actually, they actually said that the heatwave last year actually contributed to over 18,000 subside sorry, it contributed to I think it was 18,000 More subsidence claims last year, and that equated to something like 15 Sorry, one claim every 15 minutes in the second half of last year. So, these are all aspects telling us that, you know, climate matters, but also not does it just matter, it actually impacts and affects property. And obviously, we go and see property, right. So, so in terms of whether we should be reporting on it. Absolutely. So When it comes to comes to home surveys in particular, yes, the environment absolutely matters. Yes, surveyors are kind of property condition experts. But actually the way that properties interact with the environment is hugely important. So if we kind of take the example of a leaking roof, okay, just as an example, that is not a defect purely created by maybe poor component, you know, detailing, that is something which is impacted by weather conditions, right, you need the rain to fall, in order for there to be a potential roof leak. So, regardless of how you how you think about it, whether you’re talking about climate change, whether you’re talking about weather patterns, whether you’re talking about energy use, and resources, in general, these are aspects which should be included in an evolving survey marketplace, I would say, you know, times have changed, things have happened, we are seeing, you know, everywhere in the world, we’re seeing, seeing climate, just, you know, impact people on a day to day basis, and we need to make sure that it becomes a component of our surveys. And that’s not necessarily a perspective of, you know, climate change is happening, be scared, don’t buy this house. That’s, that’s not what I’m saying at all, we need to make sure that the information and advice that we give is, is truly relevant. And we need to actually draw the attention of the relevant information and advice to clients so that they can make the the best decision for them.

Matt Nally  

Okay, that makes sense. So, from a practical perspective, there’s still two questions I’ve got in my mind is how does this get into a report? Ultimately? So for example, like, the first thing I was thinking about is, is it a section that just sits in risks, for example? So that the environment changing? It’s a risk? Be aware of it? And obviously more detailed than that? And or does it sit within the main body of the report? You know, you’re talking about the roof section, that’s where we then list the environmental aspect in relation to the roof. And then the other part was, does it go beyond I suppose, the sort of more basic level of it, you live in a clay area, or going to live in a clay area, that’s more prone to shrinkage is a comment you might ordinarily make. Is it that type of level? Or? I suppose I don’t understand how does it practically get put through your report? If that makes sense?

Kate Charrington  

Yeah, sure. So. So in terms of how you kind of compartmentalise the environment within within report, I don’t think you can, if you’re going to deliver best advice to your client, it needs to be be holistic. So if you think about we are surveyors and to take holistic inspections of property, making sure that actually we follow the trail. And the same should be done for for the report itself. So yes, it can, can relate to risks in the recession. But actually, if we’re talking about roof spaces, if we’re talking about heavily glazed areas, like conservatories, are we talking about heat loss? Are we talking about overheating? You know, so there’s, there’s a multitude of different things which we can pinpoint, and actually include, within a survey report that don’t, don’t just fit into, you know, a risk section and, and the way I would probably kind of think about it is if we think about asbestos, that might be situated in a risk section of reports, but equally, it should be. Not always though, but it sorry, when I say not always I mean that there are some reports, which I see that don’t always do it. But it should also be inserted in the relevant elements sections of the report as well. So whether you’re talking about asbestos, in facials in textured ceilings, in terms of asbestos lagging on pipe work, or whatever, it should all be kind of run succinctly throughout the report so that the client actually has that in their mind as a as a potential risk.

Matt Nally  

Okay, so if you’re, if you’re commenting on something within the property, for example, we know loads of hazards got gas boilers at the moment, and likely you’re gonna you’re no longer gonna be able to replace gas boilers with gas boilers, that’s going to get phased out. Do you need to be commenting on stuff like that within the report in terms of what potentially is likely to be an impact if they’re expecting to live in the property within a certain timeframe? Or is that something you leave out? Or how do you report on just like what you include and what you don’t include what’s appropriate?

Kate Charrington  

So So I think it’s really important to establish, you know, fact versus projections. So really make sure that if you are commenting on on the fact that there is a propose proposal of, you know, XY or said, particularly in relation to, you know, replacing gas boilers with hydrogen or, you know, everyone should be installing heat pumps. And the reality is that that’s not really happening yet. So, I mean, you use that phrase kind of lightly in there. And that’s where language is really important. Because what you might consider likely, or what I’m, I may consider people should be doing, and the reality is that, do we have infrastructure in place? Is it actually going to happen is the legislation actually passed? So just being very clear with clients about what is currently the case? What is proposed and make sure that that proposed aspect is actually included? If that is something that you are actually commenting on? But I think I think I mentioned earlier about the concept of mes, minimum energy efficiency standards, that’s, that’s probably a prime example, in terms of the proposals which are in place, and it particularly if a client you’re serving, in terms of delivering them a home survey is actually purchasing a property to let and then absolutely, you should be making them aware of the proposed legislation. So that they actually find that, you know, in five, in eight years time, or whatever it is, they aren’t actually sitting with a property that’s actually become obsolete purely because of a of a higher energy, energy rating, sorry, a lower energy rating than than maybe as needed to rent out

Matt Nally  

property. They’re saying, Is there a, I don’t know how this works with the home standards, myself, but we’ve got you on here. But the the aspects around liability on whether you comment on these things? Or not, I suppose. Is there just too much liability? We don’t come on comment on it as is if you do say the wrong thing? I don’t know. But

Kate Charrington  

yeah, so I would say liability is probably the biggest cause for concern that I speak with surveys about when I say to them, like, why don’t you talk about this? Why don’t you talk about that. And, you know, a lot of my kind of pushback from clients is well, you know, I’m worried about putting that in there. Because I might have extra liability. My view and I have spoken, spoken to other people about this. But my view is, well, look, you have access to public information, you are a surveyor, who should have a reasonable knowledge of particular topics, such as climate change, and how it impacts property. And by not talking about something, you’re, you’re leaving yourself more open to claims, because actually, if something is reasonably within your knowledge than not commenting would be a disservice. And actually, where liability could stem from ultimately, so? So yeah, from from my side, I know, it’s really difficult for surveyors. But ultimately, I think if the data and information is there, and it’s available, and it’s backed up, why, why not say something? That’s my view. And I don’t think I mean, I tend to use the, the example of something like asbestos actually, if you think about that, as a health and safety issue, and you know, you as a survey, you aren’t necessarily a radon specialist or an asbestos specialist, that actually you will, you will comment on why it matters. And you’ll signpost people to where they need to go to get further information. And, and, and that doesn’t actually extend your scope or reach over survey itself. So ultimately, I mean, clients are going to be less annoyed for you wanting to deliver a survey that actually helps them make the biggest decision of their lives than you know, if you basically just said, That’s okay. Carry on.

Matt Nally  

Yeah, I suppose the flip context is just making sure it’s approachable at the same time, so it’s not something that’s doom and gloom and if something’s gonna go wrong, then yes, you need to highlight it but not in a, you know, the world’s drying up the case cracking Good luck. But more explaining, surely. Yeah,

Kate Charrington  

exactly. But you know, something that I always say whilst whilst people may kind of perceive me to be you know, what, I don’t know how people see me actually that I am You know, like I said, I’m a very kind of climate focused individual. And that doesn’t necessarily make me a doom and gloom person, I actually personally just believe that everybody can make a difference. And as surveyors, we are guardians of the built environment, right. So we should make it part of our work to help to actually drive drive mitigation of climate change where we can. And but having said that, We should do that where it is relevant and where it is appropriate. And not just for, you know, the sake of a comment here and there.