In this episode we speak with Patrick Lambert from TrueGroup Agency, a marketing agency based in London.
We cover:
???? Understanding who your talking to and why you’re providing a benefit
™️ Do you need to build a brand?
???? How you say it is key
???? Keep it short, keep it simple
???? Understanding a customers motivation at each contact point
???? What data should you capture?
⛲ What content is worth keeping fresh / reviewed?
???? What opportunities are there for content?
???? What metrics to review
View on Zencastr
Transcript
SPEAKERS
Matt Nally, Patrick Lambert
Matt Nally 00:13
In today’s episode, we’re taking a look at how you can make your business stand out better by explaining what you offer customers. And here to tell us all about that is Patrick, who’s the co-founder of True Group. So, thanks for coming today.
Patrick Lambert 00:40
Honor, it’s a pleasure. It’s great to see you, man. It’s always good to have an excuse to chat with you, isn’t it?
Matt Nally 00:46
Definitely, unfortunately, not over a beer, this one.
Patrick Lambert 00:52
And it’s an excuse to be inside in the warm today, because oh, my God, it’s cold out there.
Matt Nally 00:57
Yeah, it got really, really cold. Yes, it’s always interesting. Looking at talking about marketing We’ve talked about it quite a few times. But I suppose before we start for everybody else, how did you get into marketing? And what is it actually about?
Patrick Lambert 01:11
How did I accidentally end up with a marketing agency? Yeah. Well, I guess I came at it from the tech side. So I started, and I think this is something a lot of folks are probably seeing now with the integration of Matterport and the equivalent scans, etc. But I was fascinated by that; I used to have a complete property background as a development manager who was building client houses for them. But I was really interested in how the tech might be able to make that more seamless or improve the journey. And one of the things that came out of that was a product that fairly obviously lent itself to off-plan marketing schemes. So we started by using it as part of the development process, and you just couldn’t help. It was too obvious. If we’d modeled this before we built it, that’d be a great way of selling it. So we started actually selling it through other agencies. And they were doing a marketing package, but my business partner and another video production company had been there for years before and had a lot of experience there. And we just kept approaching this with the same strategy. We used these 3D tools back then.
But why is that strategically useful for you? And then clients?
That approach is what we actually need for our marketing.
Do you fancy having a look at this? And how are we going to get there? So that sort of broadened seven years later?
We’re a digital marketing agency, where VR and 3D are sort of pieces of the puzzle. But it’s all about explaining and just being really focused—who is our customer? Are we reaching them? And what is the message then connecting with them? And it’s so simple, particularly with digital, to lose that. And forget that this is exactly what is working. And so, you’ve got to always try to filter that fact, check it yourself, and think.
but has it made it faster and more streamlined, etc.? And as soon as we started having those big conversations, I just fell in love with the process. I love the idea of improving efficiency; I suppose, in a funny way, it’s the efficiency of marketing that I most enjoy. So how are we going to put this together? And there are loads of options, but which are the best? And how do we join them?
So they’re not running in isolation, and as a result, they have this sort of cohesive thing with feedback. And the best thing about marketing now is all the feedback; you can have so much data. You’re closer to that, even though I have so many data available. That presents its own challenge; you’ve got to filter that data and make sure you’re running some kind of sensible analysis against it. But once you’ve done that task, you can literally watch and see whether it works, which is powerful.
Matt Nally 03:44
It’s an interesting thing that comes up generally, actually across everything, whether it’s marketing or sales or secure security wherever you like data. And without it, you don’t really understand what you’re doing.
Patrick Lambert 03:57
We’re looking at a world where I think we will see AI moving into a model or having a new industry and using models as a service. So, AI’s ability to grab stuff from that data for you will be really powerful. And there are so many themes and threads of data—how do we start to aggregate them? And that companies that have access to unique streams of data as opposed to the wider Google picture are the ones that will have real value in the future to be interested in being on the roll.
Matt Nally 04:32
It might be interesting to touch on opportunities about how AI might help in the marketing process with things like chat GPT coming up and writing it all for you. But I suppose before you can come on to the sort of clever bits with the AI or come up with the strategy or the content you’re going to produce, one thing that you’ve always mentioned to me is why do you do something or explain why you’re doing something for someone? What’s the value?
Patrick Lambert 04:58
Simon Sinek, who I’m sure a few people have heard of and seen, but if not, go and look up his talks on YouTube. They’re all brilliant. He’s a very insightful guy. But like a lot of people, I watched that video explaining Apple’s ethos backwards from why, and the penny dropped on how much more impact it has. So, then it becomes a question of, “Being a surveyor, how is that relevant for me?” and I actually found that we’re both doing a bit of thinking ahead of this. And it challenges that because we’re not trying to get people to buy into a lifestyle here. This is a practical service as part of generally buying a house and most often as part of a requirement from a mortgage. So now you need to reflect, but it still has it. What is the purpose of it? Well, the mortgage companies have made it compulsory because it’s a protection. So the reason they’re here is to protect And how can you emphatically make it clear how your services help ensure that protection exists but also that you are often seen as a part of a process? So how do you best integrate with that process and make it as seamless as possible? I think that’s an important part of this: how can you make the journey as easy as possible? I think when you’re in the industry, property transactions happen all the time, and you become very familiar with them naturally. And for most people, buying a house is something that happens once, twice, maybe three times in a lifetime. They know that this is going to happen. So this process is completely alien to them, and loads of the implied or inherent things that you’re like here, we do that actually might not be so obvious. And it could be quite simple. It can be stunningly obvious. As I sort of alluded to earlier, the opportunities of digital marketing can muddy the waters, but this is still a simple exercise. Who are we talking to? And why am I providing them a benefit? So it’s not so much our reason to exist as Applewood looking into the sky, but nevertheless, why is this a benefit? Just being clear with yourself on that and thinking—and maybe at that moment, it’s also a good point—I wonder if I’m actually doing the best job of that as well. Sometimes you realize that as you look at it, thinking maybe I could be integrated with that guy and it would help them, and therein lies your little USP that comes out of that process sometimes.
Matt Nally 07:24
Is there an importance then? Do you think in surveying for branding versus marketing? Because there’s still the element of first impressions when you go onto a website or get that email. So, I suppose that’s still tied together.
Patrick Lambert 07:41
They are, but I’m not a big business partner or heavy service provider. I’m not a big brand, advocate beyond consistent application. So professionalism is really important here. And you appear to be a professional entity that has carefully put something together that is really important. Whether it’s that shade of blue or pink, I really don’t think that is as relevant here. So, it’s about what your brand is doing for you in this scenario. Again, they’re not. Although you will have some repeat customers, a lot of these people might repeat, but miles apart, so we’re not growing the community in that way; we grow with this instantaneous feeling of “Oh, they’re slick. It’s all well organized and laid out nicely. And one of the biggest things that often gets lumped into the branding process, but it’s really just about a good approach, is how to lay something out on the page. And I think graphic design for me, with all of the power of our graphic design team, the thing I love most about working with them is that they’ll all send them a page, they’ll send back the same content, and it’ll look good. You think, “How did they do that?” They’ve just rearranged it on the page. But just by giving it a bit of space, or some balance, or sometimes it’s deliberate asymmetry, sometimes it’s symmetry, but however you want to lay something out, I think that has a real impact. And it’s about that initial impression, but I don’t think you have to stress so much about the logo being a specific color. It’s about applying it and being consistently rigorous, and that’s not easy when you’ve got different platforms that you might be using, and the devil is in the details. Because of what happens when you access it on a three-year-old Samsung device or because of those little things that are challenging, that’s where quite a few of the big web companies, like Squarespace and Wix, come in. Those sorts of things are actually really useful because they’re helping protect it. But yeah, so I think it’s different, but in a different way. It’s about it’s about just somebody comes on their landing that go cool. So, it professional easy to easy to read is a really key one.
Matt Nally 09:48
That’s an interesting point you made there, because I suppose, coming into this very often, it’s all about exactly what you’re saying. But it’s supposed to be in terms of flaws, as you say. It’s important because we’ve looked at a number of different emails that get sent out by surveyors, not through survey booking, but through a study we did a couple of years ago to look at lead response times. And it’s very, very interesting that the style of email that comes through is sometimes just a big block of text. And actually, the same points are laid out much more nicely; you’ll read them. But big block of texts, you’re gonna ignore and go as too much coming for that.
Patrick Lambert 10:24
I think the best mark of it is to think how you would do it. There are exceptions to this rule that I know people that do, but I don’t read all the stuff you have to get across that’s absolutely paramount: getting those key points into short sentences. And that’s the hardest part, sweating this down. And sometimes, being a bit ruthless with some of this subsection’s subservices, we do a lot of marketing for big developments. And a classic is that they want to tell you all the features or the developments. I completely understand that they’ve worked really hard to figure out the best kitchens and bathrooms and the whole thing. But actually, when you put them on that great big list on a page, everybody just goes on, switched off. Until they are later in the process. When they’re engaged. They’re like, oh, and then they read it because they know, I’m thinking, “Buy this—it’s really useful. So, timing and that information are another part of it, I’d say. So, the layout of it, which I like to think of as tearing it, is that you keep the really simple key things upfront, and then let people dive a bit deeper, and then give them more and more detail the further in they’re going because they are choosing to click into it by definition because they’re interested.
Matt Nally 11:31
As that ties into a website landing page, for example. So, you’ve got a summary of different bits of information, nicely laid out, and then you can click through to read more about it on another page, rather than just hammering home every bit of information.
Patrick Lambert 11:44
We want to sell what is so fantastic about sales. Of course, we do. But it is difficult to be rigorous about it. But you have to think that if you land on someone else’s site, he’s trying to tell you everything, and you just don’t receive anything. So, it’s better to have at least made a couple of things land. Definitely.
Matt Nally 12:02
So talking about the bit you mentioned a minute ago, people just listing features on a development, you’ve taken a look at some websites before this before we came on. Were there things that you saw that were kind of to that effect? It was very feature-based, or maybe quite the same? or the things that stood out for you.
Patrick Lambert 12:24
I think this is difficult because, for a lot of spheres, differentiating is tough. We’re being asked predominantly to give the same service. So, what I came away with is that there’s a general tendency, but I don’t actually think it’s a survey thing at all. This is just, when you’re selling yourselves, a general tendency to want to tell people what you’re doing is good. The implication of that is that they’ll really go well, and that’s impressive. And then once I know, but actually, again, go back a step, this is because you’re somebody who very rarely engages with this industry, certainly in any level of detail, you’re just trying to buy a house, and you just want the surety of knowing someone’s going to give you something reliable and that they’re going to be effective at delivering that as part of the mortgage process. They’re going to protect you. So that’s what you’re worried about. So much more powerful to tell them what they get from your service than to tell them the features that you’re hoping will imply they get them, and then that look — that logic is one we see all the time, but it doesn’t actually translate — that just see features on a comb and that’s getting worse with scamming it mean, it’s just getting more techno and more that you know, and actually those tools are great. And using them is great, but all they’re doing is protecting the quality of that survey or its reusability or referring back to what you know there are. And so, we need to flip it around and really focus on what they got from it. And again, I’m not saying there isn’t space for some of the features; I’m saying, strip it back, pare it back as the welcome point. And then you can go into more detail once they’re invested in it, or if they’re on a call with you, that’s the best way to tell them about it, because you will naturally explain it differently when you’re talking to them.
Matt Nally 14:18
He built up trust in a different way than with text on a page or an email that would go out. And we always advocate that a website that’s written well or the initial email that goes That’s important. It buys you time, and it gives an initial impression of what you’re going to offer, but that call is always going to be much more powerful than
Patrick Lambert 14:40
It’s just because I love what Survey Book is doing. I think to a huge extent it does the lifting for this process of feeling professional. So there’s something about receiving instant notifications or emails where the content of those emails, of course, needs to be thought about, but the fact that you have received one of them so immediately that it is speaking volumes for you. And then it’s triggering you to get on the phone call, and the personal connection, by people in any sector and anywhere in life, will be the moment where you can really push it over. But I don’t want that to take away from the power of having these touch points because what they’re doing is making thinking clunky; these guys are on it. And that’s what you want to think about any service you buy. You want people to just come across as really slick and really Pro, because you just think this is great and you want that instant comfort.
Matt Nally 15:31
How do you think surveyors on a website can differentiate themselves? Let’s take home surveys as an example. Level 2 and Level 3 surveys are minimum standards, but from a consumer perspective, they’re the same thing. If I go to you or Joe Bloggs down the road, they should have the same report. Because the reality is that people often go above and beyond the minimum. But how do you communicate that because I find often you can go onto the website and it provides the same general description of what level two, level three, or evaluation is? And maybe it provides some of the features, like when we carry X tool with us or white with us, but it doesn’t necessarily sort of clearly explain to a consumer what the value of that is. How does this survey infant go about understanding how to market their differences and their value? Or value added?
Patrick Lambert 16:31
You’ve answered it in your own question by saying they listed the features and not necessarily why that’s a value. So flip that around and start explaining why other things may be of value to you. And what could be happening if you don’t get that survey, even acknowledging that that’s a minimum standard? Isn’t a minimum standard guys. But don’t you want to know that the houses are owned by men? Well, then there are other things you could be doing to make sure you understand that. I would also add something else, which is less about explaining the quality of service and more about, generally, my perception of one of the ways you’ll bring people in, and it goes back to that ease of access and ease of engagement, as well as giving people what they want at the right stages. So for example, a contact form or a quote form that’s actually a contact form So just don’t do that if you don’t want to; if you want them to contact you, don’t call for it, get a quote, and send it to them; just say, “Reach out; I’m available on the phone.” Make yourself available. But don’t do that, because you’re just adding a layer. I would strongly urge people to sometimes be brave about showing pricing and that it’s okay to have a range. But this is something we’re also seeing generationally. So one of the studies that we digested sort of 18 months ago and that really provides profound insight is the way that different generations want to engage. And the younger you get, the more they want to be able to get the information without talking to you. And I’m stripping a whole study down to real generalizations. But basically, the older you get, the more they ring, email, or chat with you anonymously online. These are the layers that you’re going through. This service doesn’t really need the sort of detail of asking for the Chatbot questions, but I think a lot of people are just trying to get a feel for the price quickly. You can’t blame them. That is the first thing they’ve been told they need a survey for, so at this point, they’re probably not even remotely engaged in what it might do for them. You’ve got to work hard to explain exactly that in a minute. They’re probably just looking for a quote. So if you can give them even a range, even a ballpark, you’ll probably find that people are grateful for that. But also, if you’re going to give them a quote, ask him to take the time to work out some sliders or something for them to choose what the features are at their house and give them something that’s reasonably accurate. You’ll get a lot of rewards for that. And the ability to quickly book things directly online. So anything you could do, and that’s exactly why I can see value in what you were building for people because it was like brilliant. You could just put this plugin on, and people would be able to do what they want. They just want to go on; I have got what I need—a book—and bang, it’s done in a text message, a momentary thing. I think that itself more than any feature lists converted to a why ever just pure ease would sell me. I’d be like, Oh, this is brilliant. I can see when he’s available. I’m available. But you know, anything you can do to make that process easy. Remove the barriers.
Matt Nally 19:42
It’s interesting. So that segues nicely into a talk about the data side of marketing. So some firms have done it this way, and I don’t think there’s necessarily a right or wrong way. But some firms, when they put their prices online, will just have a fee scale that’s public, which is fine in terms of going straight on; I don’t have to fill in any details; I can just say, “Property prices are this much. My job will be this much.” What you lose there is the ability to then follow up with that customer; you can’t provide any additional information if they haven’t already worked it out from your website as to why your fears are at that level, why is it that high? And that types of things people should look to, I suppose capture on post purchase.
Patrick Lambert 20:22
This is because as much as I’m pro-pricing, I’m even more pro the idea of asking a few questions to get your price, which I don’t think people might not do. And at that point, exactly, you’ve got an opportunity with the way they’re going to actually say, You can do that. What is this feature? Why would I add it, and these could be some of the benefits of your particular service? And this is an opportunity to do the why, but since you’re doing it through the quoting process, it’s quite probably a repeat of some of the stuff if they’ve chosen to read the marketing material. I’m not suggesting this is a whole other thing you need to write; I think you could absolutely duplicate the core bit of why this is useful. But I think you’re absolutely right—you do want to demonstrate value. If you are a premium Why is it a premium here? Or if you’re not what enables you to do this so quickly. So, it’s cost-effective because you’ve got this tool?
Two people would be equally sold, potentially either way, depending on what they’re looking for. But I absolutely think they’re lying, and it’s good value in investing in that, quote, building system, whatever, however you’d like to achieve it, to get a few details from them. I’m on the fence about the efficacy of the follow-up email, which certainly can work; you get that classic. If you’re shopping online or you forgot something in your cart and you think, how did you get my email address? But it really, ultimately, seems that the stats suggest that after a few emails, if people were vaguely interested and just got bored halfway through it, we’d get them over the line. So, you’d have to just watch the data; it will tell you on that particular niche, but fundamentally, I absolutely agree, I think you should be trying to get people to engage with your quote a little bit, not just because of the house value here, but because you’ve given them the opportunity to read in sort of next door and tell them to beat the quote, rather than getting them to buy into you just a little bit.
Matt Nally 22:21
It almost comes to use as an agency and goes like, we want to revamp our marketing strategy, look at how we change our communications, and how we put it out there. What’s the type of process you would go through to help people understand their message and determine what’s the best marketing route—whether that’s a pay-per click campaign, a leaflet, or an email?
Patrick Lambert 22:50
It’s sort of obvious, and then a lot of it is research-based; we’ve built questionnaires. So we’ve got ways of almost helping people define the brand for themselves. There are all sorts of interesting psychological backdrops to this, but you choose certain words, and actually, they’re generally associated with colors for us as people. So we’ve built out that whole system. And that’s great. You can come through and answer questionnaires, and that will help you sort of look and feel. But ultimately, one thing we haven’t talked about yet that would come out of that process is the content. Right? Content is king. And it’s tough, particularly as individuals. And we’ve just mentioned earlier about AI; how will that impact it? How is it already impacting it? Because it’s already available to you. But also, is there a value in that? Here we are creating content right now, podcasts supporting that network; it’s really important. It’s also really tough, as a solopreneur, to figure out how you’re going to answer those sorts of questions. So I think a big part of it for us is that we start with the really core bit: have we understood why your particular services are important? And let’s get that boiled down and make sure we’re talking from the customer’s perspective. So we start there, and then we’re looking at: who is the customer? Where is the customer? So step two is: what channels are they going to be best reached on, and there’s loads of potential here for SEO? And we know this is the sort of thing people are searching for. So how are we going to be good at that? And it provides its own set of deliverables here. And then the final thing is that messaging—how are we going to connect with them? And I’ve sort of struggled with this. I don’t want to suggest that every firm out there needs to be producing reams of content. I don’t think that’s realistic, and the vast majority of it probably could be the same thing, but I think all of them would benefit from having their own take on it. So you mentioned that a lot of them tend to regurgitate particular ICS pieces; it’s like, Oh, come on, let’s make our piece explain it in our way, because, again, inherently people by people; they’re seeing your approach. They’re getting an opportunity to buy into it. So it may be just a small set of frequently asked questions that you bother to make the content for, and for lots of us, that would be great. But you’ve made your version of it, you’ve explained it in plain English, and you’ve allowed people, therefore, to buy into your philosophy subliminally. And of course, you will help SEO because you have a bunch of those keywords in it, which is a real value. So I think that’s kind of the three core stages, and there’s a lot of detail that goes into them. And ultimately, the reason a lot of people hire us is to go and do the research, because it’s time-consuming and you have to work out some of these things. But it’s completely possible to sit down yourself and just get stuck in and come out with something. And often, the answer is the obvious one that you kind of knew. So it’s okay to be like, “Come on, I know that. So then you just think, Okay, well, if I were searching, what are those challenges?” and reflect on the fact that for so many people, it’s not a process they do all the time; they wouldn’t understand, you know, what the crack in the wall might mean. Or what the block thing could actually look at? What can be the implication of that? So it’s okay to kind of explain it in really simple, plain English type.
Matt Nally 26:08
It’s easy to forget, with any job, what you know now that really wasn’t obvious at all to you before. I forget it sometimes talking about the tech side of things; you start very quickly using terminology that is very obvious to you. And you completely forget someone else is looking at you going, I have no idea.
Patrick Lambert 26:28
But what did he say about React? JS? I’ve done that a lot.
Matt Nally 26:35
It’s something that should be done. reviewed regularly. But does, the message needs to change.
Patrick Lambert 26:43
Okay, so there’s sort of a yes and no, and then I’ve been really quick. So yes, it is. But I don’t think you need to completely unpick the whole story regularly. Because that will be you, it’s okay to be like we’ve laid the foundations. So it’s well worth taking the time, if you haven’t already done it, and if you’ve built a business, go back a half a step. And it’s really worth taking the time to give yourself the foundations of why I’m going to provide value to a client. And then from there, it’s more about whether those content messages are worth reviewing more often. So those frequently asked questions are: Are we seeing others come in just by being open and aware of shifts trend changes are often the best thing about something that just came up in the news. We’ve got the potential house cry house crisis that says Not that house prices dip at the moment? So what might somebody who’s looking for a survey do? What new nervousness is this? Might they have been associated with that? Is there anything that I can do that would help provide comfort there? Perfect example, she’s slightly to be part of their process. So I’d say it’s a regular review of whether you’re giving something that feels on trend there. But don’t feel you need to unpick the whole strategy again and again. Yes, it’s healthy to have those reviews. But I’m struggling to even say annually, you know, you said yes, okay to commit to this being my philosophy, my approach, and what my wife values, and to be focused more on those messages for regular updates.
Matt Nally 28:15
Yeah, it’s interesting, and then you can just tweak based on what’s going on in the market, or what you’ve seen a competitor doing, or in terms of adjusting their messaging based on what they’re seeing you do?
Patrick Lambert 28:26
From COVID, we’re always seeing something, so there’s always an opportunity to say something about it. And that just keeps you current, and it also, for a minimum amount of effort, can keep you up in SEO and those sorts of things in their local area. And I think local and community are important parts of this. Generally, people want to engage with somebody local because it’s just going to be much easier to get service as a result. So it may be a slightly more localized trend, and it’s okay to think of it that way. But yeah, just keeping an ear out and then potentially using an AI to help you write these articles because, I’ll tell you, they are amazing.
Matt Nally 29:13
I was going to ask you about the opportunities that exist at the moment, whether they’re tech-based or not, that help people produce more marketing content.
Patrick Lambert 29:24
We are in the beta stage with our own platform, that’s leading into this change for social media content for brands, but this is a massive movement, and it’s also already arrived for things like article creation, so I think that’s really important. Don’t see this as always somewhere in the future if you want to engage with it right now. It can give you value right now. We’ve got what it is—the hypotneuse, the jasper, and a few others. I make no advocacy of a particular one versus another. They are when you do a little quick sort of reading into them. Some of them are slightly better at articles. And the other one’s slightly better at this. But what I would say basically is that they are a godsend to the time poor. Whether you’re a small surveying firm or an individual, it’s brilliant, because, the gist of the article that you think would be helpful Let’s take this analysis of house price dips. You’ve thought of something that, in my opinion, would help you. Great. So you’ve got the just sitting down and massing out an article in a nice form with some key words in it. There’s a whole other process; this will spit that out for you. In my experience, if it’s not perfect, you will go through and edit it. But writing the gist and editing an article, or both, takes less time, and it’s just psychologically easier. But it’s just a hard thing to drag out of your brain. You’re going, “No, I don’t quite agree with that. I just reread that sentence, but it’s done the lifting. So I cannot advocate that enough. I think just helping to support the firstly — I don’t want anyone to take this away — I’m kind of going to produce loads of my own personal content. I don’t think that’s true. But I do think you should have your own take on these core themes. And when you need to do something that’s more current and updated, there’s actually a whole wealth of support available now in AI platforms, and loads of them offer free trials. You can probably bounce around; they’re free trials for a while. So don’t make it a big cost to get you going.
Matt Nally 31:35
Look at Jasper and from memory, you put in a sort of rough idea in the title. And then you’d say the tone of voice and stuff like that. And then you write, and it spits out a whole article for you. And as you keep refining it, it creates more and more different paragraphs, and you just have to sense check it.
Patrick Lambert 31:56
All of all of my ideas, now it’s become default, that will max it out. It’s always brilliant that it’s still my article. Because, you know, you’re defining the order of priority and things like that. So it’s still going to evoke your piece, your writing in this, but it’s so valuable to help max out an idea. And then you could go in and call from it, cut from it, whatever, and reformat it to suit. wouldn’t it be wonderful images They say they just wrote it. I think that’s overstretching. What they do, however, is give you this great sort of first draft from which you can take all the bits you like, you know, reorder it, and frequently restructure a few sentences just to make it feel more natural to you. But it’s just it’s a huge Jade. And psychologically, I think that’s a big part of it. It’s not just about time; it is faster. I’ve not done it literally by typing side by side. So I don’t know how much faster, but it is so much easier. And you can quickly mess out a few ideas. That’s probably one of the things that I use it most for: having an idea. I’ll type it in, and it’ll give me a draft. And I’ll leave it and come back to it. And at the end of the month, here it is, pre formed. I haven’t forgotten or lost it on the way. It’s quite useful.
Matt Nally 33:12
One other key point is that, even with any other marketing content, write it, leave it, and come back to it and decide. Do you still like it in two weeks time? Or a month?
Patrick Lambert 33:25
That’s a very good philosophy on it, and as to your point, going back half a step here, do you need to constantly review it? No, but regularly Yes. And reviewed the frequently asked questions. I think, actually, if I could answer that a little bit better now because you’re right, you will sit with it with time and refine even your own answer to the question, and you might get a nuance to the question that’s actually quite helpful for people to read one last piece of killer content. This is reviews right this is a service review the back matters presenting it really quickly and easily matters is a huge part. There will be referrals as part of your business, and that’s fantastic. But for anybody who you’re going to bring in cold them they are we spoke about brand you know what’s important about looking professional and slick. We’ve spoken about presenting that message nicely. Those two things are subliminally making me think I’ve found a decent company here so far. So good. Now I just really need that little bit of external validation. Oh look brilliant, those guys on my road. Fantastic. Okay. But really nice to be able to give not addresses literally but regionalize or area localised feedback to people.
Matt Nally 34:48
One platform that’s better to use, or way of presenting it?
Patrick Lambert 34:54
I think we’re presenting it, and you need to apply that same rigor. I would recommend always having the support of someone visually, like a graphic designer. You don’t have to use a big agency like us to do that; there are loads of those. But just having somebody who takes care of it does make a difference. And so let them worry about exactly how to lay it out and clean the company, but just having them, even if it’s not the best. The platform is definitely the one that works for you. But, of course, Google Reviews is the first place you would write, just because SEO then complements it with Oh, and he’s got later reviews; it’s really the obvious first place to look. And it’s got this implied because it’s not necessarily fair to trust that something that’s on Google must be real.
Matt Nally 35:51
Interesting. I suppose there’s one thing, one point you made there about having someone else do some of that stuff for you is, I suppose, down to the opportunity cost of your time being poor because you’re busy speaking with customers and going out and doing surveys, or you’re a marketing department within a bigger firm that’s just busy. It can be useful to outsource that. And yes, you have to spend a bit of money, but we’re going to give you more value in terms of the quality of the content.
Patrick Lambert 36:14
The opportunity cost is only part of the story there. I argue there’s a qualitative element to this. So there are lots of parts to this, and I think there is a more straightforward opportunity cost: I could write this, they could help me, it’s going to save you time, and I can get on with that. For survey Booker, it’s really obvious that there is an opportunity cost; for these features, I’m going to have to invest some time upfront and answer a few questions. That’s been boring, but they’re not really I can sit back, that’s opportunity cost. I would say that for some of this visual thing, there are just some people who have an approach to starting that they just do. So I don’t think, even with time, I could recreate things just as nicely as in my head. To design, for example, this just doesn’t matter. I could spend two days on it, which would actually make a nicer document. And, by the way, it will be even better in five minutes. So I’m not saying that there’s no opportunity cost benefit to that; there is. But I’d say even if there wasn’t, I would argue there’s still value in having somebody else that you just bounce it. And so often for clients, for us, that is just coaching them gently to say a little bit less and give the patient space. Which goes back to the layout, back to the core points, and back to the big list of features. It’s like, this is all good stuff. But you’ve got to think about how you’re going to take them on the journey, not just working with it right at the beginning. Because it just overwhelms. We get hit with so much content every day, like so many fours. So fast-paced.
Matt Nally 37:49
Attention spans are gone.
Patrick Lambert 37:52
Really tough. You really do need to focus on this. So unless you are really careful about how you put it forward.
Matt Nally 37:59
The final question. What do you think some of the metrics are that people should consider tracking? In order to understand whether their marketing has been effective?
Patrick Lambert 38:11
So the challenge I will answer is that I think it depends on how big of a firm and how sophisticated you want it to be, from a Solage printer up to a big time, you’re going to have a swing of the ability to spend time on this. And it’s diminishing rates of return. So the first thing is to engage with it, which is most of the victory once you started looking. The basic metrics that whatever platform you’re using will give you a fantastic outcome. The more you’re engaged in this, the more sophisticated you get, I can’t really tell you that there’s a particularly bad question to ask if you’re thinking to ask it. And it won’t give me an answer that I know sounds horribly vague. But the key thing is right: we’re getting traffic coming in from Google affiliates and those sorts of things, understanding that, where did the source of this traffic come from? Is a real basic, powerful one, the dwell time? So did they get there and or potentially more valuable alongside those actually there scroll percentage down. And this ties into a really core part of site design, which is the call to action. Where do you need to be putting those, and how often, so it’s not annoying, but it’s there before you’ve lost them on the scroll? And then when they come in, and they absolutely have integrated with the service before already, you’ve got your welcome email in your follow-ups. And for those, I think open rates are good; you want to be targeting them. I mean, we target 50% when we’re doing our outreach, which is mad or whoever it is, but it is achievable. But the open rate is often misleading because Outlook, whenever you scroll down, opens a bloody email. That doesn’t mean navigation. So try and be a bit harder on that and be like, No, actually, I needed to engage with this in some way. Whether that’s cyclical or whatever, I would say the open rate can be misleading as to how many engagements you are getting. Much more interesting is whether that email actually led back to a conversion. And you could almost liken it to turnover being vanity and profit being sanity, there’s a bit of that about it, and you can be so obsessed with getting everybody to look at it. And that really doesn’t matter, and when they look at it, they come back to you, so focus much more on how that email is pulling them back into the funnel than worrying necessarily about everybody opening every single one.
Matt Nally 40:38
Don’t get too bogged down or worried about getting every metric under the sun; just get started. And then you can start tracking the basics. And you can.
Patrick Lambert 40:47
My wife is a data analyst. And you could go on for a while, but the further and deeper you go, the greater the risk of not asking the right question. And I would say that for most people, the type of buying decision that we’re looking at here and the nature of the people that were coming in to do it What’s really important to you is: Where did they come from? And it’s got to be the number one thing because you want to figure out whether that local magazine worked or whether it’s my Google ranking that’s getting me the most work because it can help you double down and refocus. I’m going to put some effort into sponsoring the local rugby team, or I’m not because it did nothing whatever. Those sorts of new decisions are really key. Now, the sort of slight teardown I have is my website managing to get people to engage a little bit. Again, you could get into sector-by-sector analysis and see where the mouse hovered on the screen. But who’s got time? And if you’ve got the team for doing that, then I’m sure they know what they’re looking for, so trust them to help give you those answers.
Matt Nally 41:53
It was important to sort of keep reinvesting in what’s working well and refining that and not getting bogged down with loads of other avenues. Not actually achieving,
Patrick Lambert 42:04
Actually, there’s one that we learned the hard way: you see something that’s about metric anything wrong, and how are we going to make that fantastic instead of getting more rivals? Is revising for exams when you were a kid you spent all the time worrying about the worst subjects you think they’re gone? Why did I just make sure I got the A stars locked in and we’ll come back to French later.
So yeah, I think he’s a really important one. If something’s working, can it do even harder because it does even better? If you completely reach that potential, fine. Now we’ll move on to improving the next thing.
Matt Nally 42:42
Thanks for joining us today. Patrick. And if people want to get in touch to discuss marketing ideas, we’re hardly about it.
Patrick Lambert 42:50
Yeah, it is truegroup.agency, or you can email [email protected].
Matt Nally 43:00
And I saw on your website something about a rooftop beer garden or something like that at your offices.
Patrick Lambert 43:06
Oh yeah, we have our office in Knightsbridge, which we keep purely to impress by doing no work at all. Come. overlooking Hyde Park, for your benefit exclusively. That is exactly why it exists. And I hope some of that was a valuable insight.