Episode 38 – Part 1: What Motivated You to Apply to the RICS Matrics Awards with Zoe Baker and Joe Ellison

The following transcript is autogenerated so may contain errors.

Matt Nally: In this week’s episode, I’m joined By Zoe Baker and Joe Ellison, both previous Rix Matrix Awards winners. And why is that relevant? Today we’re going to be talking about the Rix Matrix Awards and why they went for it. Thank you both firstly for coming on. Appreciate it.

Zoe Baker: Thank you.

Matt Nally: No problem.

Do you want to each, maybe, so you want to go first, but just give us a bit of background as to who you each are, and then we can jump into sort of, yeah why you went

Zoe Baker: for it in a minute. Yeah, sure. So I’m Zoe Baker. I’m the owner of Your Surveyors Limited. A residential surveying company I got into surveying about 10 years ago by chance, by getting an operations role within a surveying company trained to be a surveyor and then opened my own business after that.

So [00:01:00] that’s my route. Into what I do now.

Matt Nally: Awesome. What about you Joe? How did you get into it?

Joe Ellison: Yeah, so I’m Joe Ellison I’m chartered surveyor business improvement manager at pinnacle surveyors so i’ve been chartered for five years now I got into surveying because my Dad’s a surveyor.

So runs in the blood really Yeah, different routes in yeah, so I had was a bit lost didn’t know what to do. So You Jumped at the chance to do a surveying course.

Matt Nally: Oh, fair play. Yeah, no, it’s interesting actually then to be able to look at two different perspectives. And I think probably representative of surveying where everyone comes in from completely different angles.

Yeah, I suppose the first topic we’re going to cover today is Why did you apply for the awards in the first place?

Joe Ellison: I’ve actually won the awards twice. So I won the valuation category in 2019. And that was, so that was a just a few months after I’d qualified [00:02:00] as a surveyor. I It was the day that I found out that I’d qualified.

I found out that I’d been nominated for the British mortgage awards as well. And I think you just start getting a book for awards particularly early on in your career. Yeah. And then I saw the matrix advert come out and I was always already part of my local matrix group in Darby.

So I just thought, why not give it a go? Um, happened to win the valuation category and then just left it alone for a few years and then this, so I then won the residential category last year and I think I was just in, in a good place in where I was in terms of the business and how much I’d achieved.

So I just thought I’d go for it more than anything. No particular reasons. I’d Thought about it for a little while, but then thought, you know what? I’ll try the residential category this time. So went for it and didn’t expect to win at all. Just went for a bit of a night out in London. And [00:03:00] when they announced my name, it was a shock.

So

Matt Nally: that’s, yeah. Cause the drinks were on you at that point.

Joe Ellison: Yeah, exactly.

Matt Nally: So what I suppose what was the catalyst? Cause I know that I’ve spoken to people before and they’re on the edge of, on the edge of do I apply for it? Do I not apply for it? What was the sort of What gave you the sort of yeah, the impetus to go, yeah, I think I’ve got a reason to.

Joe Ellison: I think for me, it was just sitting back and thinking, yeah, I’ve done good work this year. I’ve really worked hard this year and not going into it thinking that I could win, but going into it thinking I want to prove myself and I want to show all the people what I’ve done, because something from the outset, I think is that doing the application process is a great reflective piece.

So regardless of whether you’re going for it to win or not. just to be able to sit down and reflect on what you’ve done over the past 12 months, 18 months, it is a really good piece of work for you to do for yourself. So [00:04:00] sitting down to do that was my main aim to be able to sit down and think, yeah I’ve really done well this year in these different categories.

And then winning was the cherry on top.

Matt Nally: It’s a good idea actually, cause it’s easy to time sadly moves very quickly now. And it’s, yeah, it’s hard to sometimes remember what you’ve done cause you get caught up in the day to day. So that’s a nice thing to do actually. How about you Zoe?

Is it similar reasons, very different reasons?

Zoe Baker: I can completely relate to Joe when he says that you forget what you’ve done, because when I was, I remember writing my submission and then I was going through and then I was thinking, Oh yeah, and that, Oh yeah, and that, because life just goes so quickly.

And I had quite a turbulent couple of years before I applied for the award. I’d set up the business. It was early years of the business. And then before that I had a bit of, turbulence going on in my career generally. So to sit down and reflect was, yeah, it was quite enlightening actually, and I thought, Oh God, I’ve actually, done quite a lot in such a short space of [00:05:00] time.

But like you say, you don’t know until you actually sit down. And I think that’s taught me to do that now and again. And I do that even though. I’m not going to, awards or whatever, I would still sit down and go, I’ve achieved because self recognition is great. It’s a great driver when it comes to motivation.

But for me, actually I did apply for it, obviously, It was me putting myself forward. It was a self nomination. However I’d experienced some, everybody knows I’m quite vocal about my experiences in this industry. And and I’ve experienced women not being represented within the surveying profession.

And part of my submission was to be a woman In, in this situation, okay, I might not have got a shortlist, I might not have won, but at least I’m doing something for women and being a role model to other women surveyors to be like, oh she’s done it, so I can do it, and hopefully brings [00:06:00] more women into the profession because we still need to Even out that, gender balance within the profession still.

Matt Nally: Yeah, it was interesting. We did a a podcast a while back with Sybil from the RACS around diversity, equity, inclusion and potentially what the sort of timeframe on that based on current rates looks and it’s quite scary actually but in terms of how long it might take to do that, but it’s but yeah it’s a very good point actually.

It’s sometimes you can forget what people think when they see someone they relate to. Yeah,

Zoe Baker: and also I have been an employee as a woman in this profession and I wasn’t achieving what I wanted to achieve. because it wasn’t the environment that would have allowed me to do that. So by opening my own business and putting myself forward for an award, I would just like to appeal to other women so that they can think, actually, I don’t have to work within this environment.

If it isn’t benefiting my career and I’m not progressing the way that I want to, [00:07:00] there’s always another option, so It was to, it was a message as well as a bit of self recognition as well.

Matt Nally: Yeah. So that’s really good to do, actually. I think one of the things I’ve spoken to a couple of people about, because they were thinking about doing this application process was, how do I know if I’ve really done anything that is worthy of applying it, is it just my day to day role or what that’s the, at least it’s easy to get caught up in the day to day and bit thinking what you do is the routine, the normal, nothing stands out, not worthy of applying type of thing.

What for you both? Made you think, yeah, it’s worth what I’ve done is worth. Putting myself forward for it’s not just the yeah, you’re turning up for the day job type thing.

Joe Ellison: I think for me, The day to day role can be enough as long as you are making an impact in your day to day role then that I think is more than enough So so part of my submission when I did it was just about meeting client service levels and the and that is just my day to day role.

You don’t have to be going above and [00:08:00] beyond A hundred percent of the time to be able to write a submission. It is just a case of, turning up for work, doing your best, whether like Zoe, you’ve got your own company or like me you work for others. As long as you’re taking every chance that you’ve got and yes, potentially every now and again, going out and pushing yourself a little bit harder and maybe volunteering for something or I dunno Doing a bit outside of your day to day role, the majority of the submission relates to how you succeed in that daily surveying.

Zoe Baker: Yeah. And I think as well, it’s all about. Delivering how consistent you are in that role as, because it can be up and down and turbulent, but if you can remain consistent we all have a job to do, but if you do it well and you apply yourself, like Joe said, that’s pretty much the foundation of what you need for this type of [00:09:00] award, really.

That’s your bread and butter. And then anything else is just,

Matt Nally: Yeah, definitely. I think I suppose we live in a world where potentially with social media, it’s easy to focus on all these amazing things that are going all of the time. And therefore, if you’re going to apply for something like this, it has to be everything super extraordinary every day.

And otherwise actually, yeah not for me and you’re right, actually being consistent. Every single day is possibly much harder than the once or twice doing something particularly spectacular. And that’s quite a thing to yeah, push people for, or motivate others as well.

Sorry. That’s what I’m trying to say.

Zoe Baker: Yeah. You’ve got to get the foundations right, and then you can start building on that. So once you’ve got your day to day role consistent and really well run, then you start adding in your additional elements. Yeah. Because what you don’t want to do is overwork yourself.

You start saying yes to everything. And then your day to day role suffers and your performance suffers because you’ve stretched yourself too far.

Matt Nally: Yeah, very easy to do. You get excited and want to [00:10:00] please. And before actually nothing’s been done very well

Zoe Baker: at all. Yes.

Matt Nally: I suppose in order to be in a position where you can apply for the award and you feel like you’re at that point of being consistent with everything what were the steps you took to get yourself into a position where you were doing your job?

You were consistent with things you were supporting the right customers in the right way or other team members, whatever it might be, but there was there something in particular about your, I don’t know, lead up in the, Two, three, four years before that with your training or whatever it might be that you felt put you in that position to be consistent.

Zoe Baker: Yeah, I think my award was 2022. So it was two years after I’d started your surveyors and finished my qualification. And I’d gone through various market activity and grown the business slightly, to, to a good level. And I just got to that stage where it was, every day was turning over nicely and it was a nice place and I thought this is great, so I [00:11:00] think, yeah, and it’s gone long enough for me to realize that it had been successful, the setup had been successful, because you can tell that in the first year, to be honest, whether you put the right things in place to make it work. And you’ve also learned a lot over those first two years as well.

And that’s like any role, even if you’re an employee, the most you learn is in the early years. So I think it got to that point for me and I was like, I know where I am. I know where I want to go with this because you’re working it out at the beginning. Your mind’s going crazy and you’re thinking, where do I actually want to go with this?

I could go here. I could go there. It got to the stage where I was like, I know what I’m, I know where I want to go. Once you’ve settled and you can understand and see your path, I think that’s the time really.

Matt Nally: What do you say? Similar for yourself, Joe, or different experiences as that lead up?

Joe Ellison: I think for me, so thinking about winning last year, I’d had a couple of [00:12:00] years post qualification where I’d, like we say just done the day to day and really Built up my skill set and then i’d been doing An mba degree for the previous couple of years as well And that really boosted my confidence in myself if anything else and Allowed me to make decisions In within the business and then very much Zoe said I got to the point where you can see your successors and you can see where you are making a difference to yourself and the business as a whole and that’s the point where you start thinking.

Yeah, i’m ready to I’ve got the confidence and i’m ready to go and try this

Matt Nally: Awesome. I suppose before we move on to the topic to life after the award is, are there any things you’d say to anyone thinking about applying?

Joe Ellison: Some people look down on awards and award winners, but I think particularly for the Matrix Awards, because it is specifically for people in their first 10 [00:13:00] years.

Of being a surveyor just go out there and do it basically, just go out there and give it a go and you never know what will happen.

Zoe Baker: As well, what we touched on earlier about comparison, don’t compare yourself to anybody. Comparison is the thief of joy. It’s one of my favorite sayings I tell myself every day.

It is, you are your own person and I think self development is key. Building your self confidence. So that you get to the stage where you know your own mind, you know your own abilities, you know how to put that out to a wider audience and you know how to project yourself. Go for it, self doubt, we all have it.

We all have imposter syndrome. We all think we’re not good enough now and again, even very confident people think it, so it’s, Ignore all the negative film talk and just go for it. Definitely, I think

Matt Nally: if you haven’t got those thoughts, you’re potentially not pushing yourself. So yeah, definitely, it’s worth going for and seeing where it takes you.

[00:14:00] But yeah, interesting first part, but join us for topic two where we’re going to look at life after the award.